Tsampa.org: Under the Bar

September 6, 2006

8 responses to Week 36: A Minor Major PR and A Major Minor PR

Stinn Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 6:43 pm
Congrats on the PRs especially one you’ve chased for so long. It looks like you bench in your deadlift shoes(asics right?). Have you tried benching in a shoe with a heel? I find I like a heeled shoe for bench.
Kris Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 9:13 pm
Aye Stinn, you have opened up new vistas, and my wallet, for me. Your eyes are sharp, they are Asics Bam wrestling shoes. Only, they are not my deadlift shoes, but my only training shoes. I bought them back in 2003 when I first started getting acquainted with Westside ideas. Converse Chuck Taylors, THE flat shoe at Westside Barbell Club, weren’t easily found over here then (they are now), so I settled for one of those low-end wrestling shoes that is also used. I’ve been very happy with that choice, only now I just found myself ordering another pair of shoes thanks to you Stinn… Partly because of what you said about benching, but even more so due to what I found out while surfing the matter about shoes and raw squatting. Apparently, raw and single-ply squatters (i.e. most of the IPF) tend to use weightlifting shoes that have a heel, whereas lifters with heavier gear (i.e. Westside lifters) go for the flat soles of Chucks and wrestling shoes. This thread at Monster Muscle Forum discussing shoe selection for squatting was the eye opener, here’s the goodies:

Tony_Quist (March 25, 2006):
The less gear you wear the more of a narrow stance you have to take. The more narrow stance requires a raised heel. If you use a super wide stance like West Side says to then having a flatter sole like the Converse All Star is best.

Ahmed (March 26, 2006):
I used to squat wide according to westsides rule, but I think that guys in westside don’t compete in the IPF or USAPL and that what louie simmons himself said. They, also, use canvas suits and shirtsin squattinh and benching. Thats why louie said that chucks are the best shoes ever for squatting and the wide stance is the best way to get the biggest weights. of course, he is right if you are going to squat with the canvas suit which can barely makes you reach the parallel and this way of sqauatting sound to me like you are doing leg presses but with the bar on your shoulder. This is my private opinion, I don’t consider squatting with canvas barely at parallel a squat. So, recently, I started to squat close stance and below parallel and I am thinking of buying the high heeled shoes as it helps you to break the parallel more than the flat sole shoes. I know they are very expensive, even for me will, for this reasons I am asking the guys who are using them before spending this bunch of money on these shoes.

Tony_Quist (March 27, 2006):
This is correct in what you wrote. It would be nice if Louie would have somewhere stated that in his articles 3 years ago. I see raw squatters trying to use a super wide stance to squat heavy weight in. None can get past parallel if they can get down there at all. You have to use that wide of a stance or else the suit will throw you forward. If you use a medium stance the suit will cause your back to pretty much be parallel to the floor.

Not only that, but if I’m anything like this lifter, my squatting style might benefit A LOT from a slight heel:

PR HUNTER (March 29, 2006):
I like the weightlifting shoes for raw squatting. I find it is easier to get my hips forward and under the bar during the accent. With wrestling shoes or chucks (which are great for deadlifts), I find my hips hang behind the bar too long and I end up doing a parallel good morning.

Parallel good morning? You’ve seen those around here, haven’t you folks…?
Anyway, in a thread (beware, Finnish ahead!) over at Westsidebar.net, people seemed to agree that a wrestling shoe is a good all-round solution, but for raw squatters a bit of heel is desirable. There’s a new shoe out, the Red Devil Powershoe, that was mentioned as a good candidate. It’s got about half the heel of a weightlifting shoe and is apparently especially designed for powerlifting. I have a feeling this could be a good shoe to try for someone like me who is used to squatting flat soled, a weightlifting high heel would probably throw my squat out of orbit… So, I just placed an order for a pair of Red Devils along with some ammonia capsules. This probably means I have to skimp on buying new Metal training pants and a longer gym membership this month, but who gives a *** when you can wear the devil on your feet instead? So Stinn, I will definitively stop wearing my deadlift shoes for benching asap! Thanks for enlightening me.

Those of you reading this, what kind of shoe(s) do you use when lifting?
Stinn Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 11:31 pm
Hahah, sorry but that sounds alot like me. After hearing about the heel being good for squatting I tried on a friends and within a week had my order placed with http://weightliftingshoes.ca. I have the blue/white ones at the top of the page. I use them for bench and squat.
Kris Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 11:51 pm
So you also squatted flat soled before hearing about the mighty heel? How did the transition to squatting with heels work for you… a lot of bumping into innocent objects and bystanders with a heavy bar on your shoulders or a smooth ride? Can’t wait to give it a go, should have the shoes around Wednesday or so. Drooooooooling with anticipation I am yes yes.
chris Says:
September 8th, 2006 at 11:55 pm
Mr Lindqvist…..excellent job on the PR’s and what i suspect may be more of a psychological PR (maybe not, if not lemme know and i will stand corrected)….its great to see all your hard work and studying is paying off. i tend to agree with what you and Stinn have been talkin about, i think for the squatter that is not trying to achieve “ultra-mega-wideness” on the squat, and incorporating a super suit (i only approve of single ply at the moment, subject to change with strength level of course…)would benefit form the heeled shoe. I too am looking into the heeled-type shoe, just havent pulled the trigger on it yet, maybe i will wait for you and stinn to see what the results are….again, awesome job on the PR’s, what are your new goals to shoot for? i saw you were talkin about cuttin some weight, what weight class are you currently in? and what are you shootin for?
Kris Says:
September 9th, 2006 at 12:55 am
No objections against that diagnosis, Chris. I currently weigh about 104 kg (229 lbs) and am looking at roughly 13 weeks of dieting. That’s all I have time for right now; the plan is to diet down some, then work weights back up for the virtual meet. I hope this will net me better relative strength and possibly also some gains in absolute strength after I come off the diet. Thirteen weeks of dieting should, if everything goes according to plan, bring me down between 7 and 10 kg, so looking at coming down to between 94 kg/207 lbs and 97 kg/213 lbs on top of which I will probably gain about a kilo during the meet preparation. Since this is an open meet, I will allow weight to drop on its own pace and won’t need to resort to anything drastic to make weight. Never competed yet, so technically I don’t have a weight class yet. The plan is to start keeping weight on a bit shorter leash so that I don’t need to diet extensively when I am ready for a real meet. I like being heavyish, but lard does not push weights.
Stinn Says:
September 11th, 2006 at 12:48 am
It was a very easy transition, besides the first few minutes in them nothing to it, the first set might have been a little touchy but after that it was smooth sailing. The weirdest part was actually just getting used to walking around in them.
Chris I made the transition a few months back maybe more, just after April I think. The last meet I did in June was in them. I wouldn’t go back to a flat sole now.
Kris Says:
September 11th, 2006 at 5:22 am
I hope I can just jump into the new cycle with the new shoes without too much trouble, but let’s see… I’m down with a flu, so it seems like I shall have the shoes before the first workout.